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What a disgusting budget....

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Postby EastSideRocks » Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:57 pm

An increase in taxes is likely to occur in most developed nations. After the last few years of stimulus spending this is just the reality. While it isn't politically popular it is neccessary in the long run.

They did say it would be used for infrastructure which I have no problem with and they have waived PST on several items that young families would use and they reduced some provincial taxes.

It is expected that this PST will cost the average person $300 more per year and then with a tax reduction will be about $27. We are talking about a difference of $273 per year... I can live with that.

The benefit of increasing PST as opposed to provincial taxes for all is that it taxes people who spend so if you don't have the money you won't pay more in taxes. If I have the discretionary income to buy bomber season tickets and get drunk at the games I consider myself lucky and I am okay with paying a 1% more.

People need to settle down and don't blame this on the NDP. All governments no matter their political stance have been spenders the last few years and now they have to pay for that.
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Postby grumpy old man » Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:19 pm

I'll try to be polite...

It's not about the tax increase per se. It is about the nefarious underhanded way they are going about getting the tax increase.

By law, a tax increase required a referendum. The ndp decided to just change the law. You know, like they did when they decided to run annual deficits.

There are some that may be okay with this, I for one am not. Don't deign suggest we need to settle down and worse, not blame this on the NDP. This IS on the ndp. In all the previous "prosperous" years of "record" growth and transfer payments the ndp could have been clearing the deficit. Instead they spent like drunken sailors.

Now the chickens have come home to roost. There is no more rainy day fund to pilfer from and we are already one of the most heavily taxes provinces.

And YET the ndp have not cut back spending! Record deficits and continued reckless spending.

You are absolutely delusional if you think you are only getting away with a 1% tax increase.

Yeah, right, don't blame the ndp.
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Postby road griller » Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:47 pm

Ya, the Cons would never pass a bill that changed a law.

(see thirty 8.)

Majority's do what they want to.

My advice, don't worry be happy.

BTW, great post ESR. I guess you disagree with 99.9% of my posts now.
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Postby peg_city » Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:41 pm

It will be interesting to see how the Conservatives will play this during the next election. They could run on a platform of eliminating the 1% (maybe more). My guess is (now, after some thought) the NDP did their homework prior to increasing the PST and determined that it was politically feasible to do so and the blow back would't be that heavy.

I guess we'll see though.
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Postby RebusRankin » Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:08 pm

Had they spent within their means, they wouldn't have had to raise the PST. Oh and look at Kives article today in the FP, its not all going to infastructure.
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Postby cybergomer » Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:26 pm

Even with the added 3% revenue that the province will bring in from this tax hike, they still budget to spend more than the increase.

And with how quickly they are proceeding, I wouldn't be a bit surprised to find out that there is something that they are not telling Manitobans. For Struthers and Sellinger to go out and say that Manitoba cannot afford to miss a construction season, leads me to believe that there is something they are hiding.
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Postby 17to85 » Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:07 pm

cybergomer wrote:Even with the added 3% revenue that the province will bring in from this tax hike, they still budget to spend more than the increase.


and when has a government ever got their actual spending predictions correct? They always over estimate revenue and underestimate expenditures. the fact that they're predicting more increases in spending than increased revenue should be a HUGE red flag to any voter in Manitoba.
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Postby blueandgoldguy » Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:32 am

How I long for the days of a responsible provincial Conservative government that consistently ran budget surpluses made all the more impressive by the fact they received considerably less transfer payments in the 90s.

NDP broke legislation in the past by posting consecutive years with deficits. Now they resort to raising the PST without holding a referendum.

The funny thing is, I believe most people would be fine with this if the additional $300 million was spent on infrastructure as promised - it's badly needed. However, in all likelihood, a substantial portion will end up going into social programs, towards special interest groups (arts) or vanity projects that will increase the dippers' chances of receiving another 4 years in office.

The conservatives need to return to what made them a success in the first place - lower taxes and smaller government. Hopefully, Pallister and co. have learned from the mistakes made by Mcfayden campaign - trying to outspend the NDP. I wouldn't be surprised if this cost them several votes as traditional conservative voters were so turned off by their platform that they chose to not vote at all.

Despite the NDP majority in the last election, the popular vote between the two parties was dead even, possibly even slightly in favour of the Conservatives. This of course can be attributed to several landslide victories by the conservatives in rural ridings and a relative poor showing in the city. I blame Winnipeggers for the prolonged rule of the NDP. :( l
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Postby road griller » Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:32 am

RebusRankin wrote:Had they spent within their means, they wouldn't have had to raise the PST. Oh and look at Kives article today in the FP, its not all going to infastructure.


I will take your word for it. I would read it but my brain is nearing capacity and I need to save the space.

In any case who cares? The so called "First World" has been spending beyond its means for a half century. This is monies that will NEVER be back. Never ever.

So our fate has been sealed for a long time now, the depression of '08 really does not make a difference. So in the end trying to spend our way out of it was never going to work, but it kept the lifestyle we could never afford in the first place alive for most. For now.

So I will not sit around and worry about 300 bucks, instead I will chose to live, love life and enjoy every day.

My advice, don't worry be happy.
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Postby BriceDream » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:23 am

road griller wrote:My advice, don't worry be happy.


I think its time to retire that RG. We get it -- you don't really care about your taxes or when elected officials circumvent your right to have your say in taxation. That doesn't mean the rest of us shouldn't care.

And as a point, my wife and I no longer live in MB but are always considering moving back to be near family and friends. Moves like this, however, make such a move far less desirable.

So excuse me if I am worried about the state of the state in my home.
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Postby road griller » Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:59 am

BriceDream wrote:
road griller wrote:My advice, don't worry be happy.


I think its time to retire that RG. We get it -- you don't really care about your taxes or when elected officials circumvent your right to have your say in taxation. That doesn't mean the rest of us shouldn't care.

And as a point, my wife and I no longer live in MB but are always considering moving back to be near family and friends. Moves like this, however, make such a move far less desirable.

So excuse me if I am worried about the state of the state in my home.


Go ahead and worry then, no problem. It will not affect the outcome in the end anyway is what I am saying.

Our fate as "First World" nations was sealed long ago. The debt will never be paid back. Ever.

So once again, live, love, laugh and enjoy your friends and family. Every day you waste being worried is another day you will never get back.

I lived away for a long time as well, I moved back for friends and family. Well worth it, can't even put a price on it actually. Start with everything I own I guess.

Sit back, watch the Jets tonight have a few cool ones and relax. Enjoy!
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Postby iso_55 » Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:00 am

Agree with everything you say, BriceDream. We, as citizens just can't roll over & be apathetic. The "Don't Worry, Be Happy" mantra doesn't work for me. Instead, "Be Vigilant & Remember On Election Day" mantra is what I choose to live by.
I live in Calgary but Winnipeg is my hometown. Manitoba is where I grew up & I still feel a strong connection to the province I was born. I too, care about what happens there.
I also live in Alberta & we are stuck with the worst provincial government I have ever seen. We ran a $6 billion dollar deficit in 2012. The Redford Tories, despite a $2 billion dollar working deficit last year went out & borrowed another $4 billion dollars for infrastructure.
They are going to borrow another $13 billion dollars over the next four years on top of that. In 2017, we will be in hock to the tune of $17 BILLION dollars because of her criminal mismanagement of our provincial finances.
It's akin to not being able to pay your utility bills at home yet you go out & borrow $35,000 to buy a new SUV. Doesn't make sense yet that is what Premier Redford is doing.
People here are angry & in shock. Can't believe the lies that are being thrown at Albertans. The Tories have cut everywhere & I mean EVERYWHERE. Services are being cut across the board with all kinds of programs being eliminated. Yet there's Redford going out & borrowing billions to build new highways or schools that we can't afford. The old highways are crumbling & schools need to be fixed but the money isn't going there to fix them. Just absolute insanity.
Manitoba & Alberta have one thing in common. The provincial governments of both provinces need to be turfed. Be Vigilant & Remember On Election Day.
You guys got me going, whew! :evil:
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Postby road griller » Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:46 am

Good post iso, goes to show even conservative governments can't stop the bleeding.

We can't afford even the basics roads, fire, police, paramedics, teachers ect. What are we going to do? Cut back on good paying jobs, these families get McJobs lose their homes, they go for sale. They all try and under cut each other and boom. The race to the bottom begins.

It already has, we are just in the early stages. America has a head start on us, but also has not even come close to bottom.

So in the end all stories begin with once upon a time. Once upon a time we could afford and sustain our way of life. But it was a long time ago. For many it was before the day they were born.

Its a done deal, don't sweat the small stuff.
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Postby cybergomer » Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:16 pm

road griller wrote:Good post iso, goes to show even conservative governments can't stop the bleeding.

We can't afford even the basics roads, fire, police, paramedics, teachers ect. What are we going to do? Cut back on good paying jobs, these families get McJobs lose their homes, they go for sale. They all try and under cut each other and boom. The race to the bottom begins.

It already has, we are just in the early stages. America has a head start on us, but also has not even come close to bottom.

So in the end all stories begin with once upon a time. Once upon a time we could afford and sustain our way of life. But it was a long time ago. For many it was before the day they were born.

Its a done deal, don't sweat the small stuff.


The problem being that to some people this isn't "small stuff". There are people that an extra $20 can go along way to making sure that they eat for the following week.

With Hydro wanting to increase rates 4% a year for the next 10 years, the province taking more PST on things that people have to buy on top of the increased scope of the PST that we got last year, the added fees from the City of WPG to pay for garbage bins and not to mention the prices of food going up, its enough to drive a man to drink, and even that could end up bankrupting some people now.

People may be more willing to accept these increases if their paycheques represented the same increases.
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