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Do you want the NHL back in Winnipeg?

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Do you want the NHL back in Winnipeg

Yes
44
54%
No
37
46%
 
Total votes : 81

Postby ManitobaMike » Sun Aug 12, 2007 5:46 pm

No owner or owners in this city are going to spend $180 million on a hockey team just to break even. In 1995, the Jets were up for sale for $32 million and no one here was interested.
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Postby dkehler » Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:01 pm

ManitobaMike wrote:No owner or owners in this city are going to spend $180 million on a hockey team just to break even. In 1995, the Jets were up for sale for $32 million and no one here was interested.


Gee, do you suppose the lack of a modern facilty had anything to do with it?

Look, if you want to doubt that anyone will spend the money to get a team here, fine. That's probably the biggest hurdle right now. But you just sound like the typical Winnipeg naysayer when you spout crap like $200+ ticket prices and act like we're still in 1996.
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Postby BVD » Mon Aug 13, 2007 7:42 am

It might only be me who thinks this way, but was the old arena really all that bad?

I believe the only reason why my dad didn't take me to more games was because of the ticket prices and the fact that the team never really was a contender.

If Winnipeg were to get a team, they would once again be one of the more frugal teams pinching pennies which in effect would more then likely field mediocre teams.

I do believe Winnipeg will get an NHL franchise one of these days but IMO the city should just wait 5-10 years when the USA really forgets about hockey and when about 10 franchises fold down South....
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Postby BlueBallz » Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:05 am

dkehler wrote:
BVD wrote:Even "if" the tickets were 160 dollars... I doubt many peggers would still go. Heck we have troubles selling 20-40 dollar tickets for Bomber games when the team isnt' winning. I can't imagine to many people spending 5 times as much with a team that wont ever contend.


Who says we wouldn't ever contend? There is more that can't do attitude I'm talking about.

Anyway, I don't think you can compare the CFL to the NHL directly. Sure, there may be fans of both, but a fan of one doesn't necessarily mean that person is a fan of the other and vice versa. And luckily, we only need around 13,000 people that are willing to pay NHL prices every game (plus corporate box sales). I think it's well within the realm of possibility.




And where do you intend on finding these people???????

Or do they only come out to Portage and Main once the team is threatened with it's departure??? lol Where were these people when they were needed the last time?? Are they going to now magically appear after a long absence since the NHL was last here??

New MTS Centre is your argument?? That's fine and dandy and will bring out the odd casual fan, but it's the product on the ice that will sustain them for the long run (which is needed to survive) and keep them coming back for more.

Are we really going to attract these 'casual' fans out 3-4 times a week at NHL prices when they won't pay cheaper rates right now?? The argument that it's the "NHL" is a weak one.......

Not saying it's impossible, but sometimes you gotta take off the rose colored glasses to see the grim reality too.
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Postby dkehler » Mon Aug 13, 2007 10:09 pm

BlueBallz wrote:
dkehler wrote:
BVD wrote:Even "if" the tickets were 160 dollars... I doubt many peggers would still go. Heck we have troubles selling 20-40 dollar tickets for Bomber games when the team isnt' winning. I can't imagine to many people spending 5 times as much with a team that wont ever contend.


Who says we wouldn't ever contend? There is more that can't do attitude I'm talking about.

Anyway, I don't think you can compare the CFL to the NHL directly. Sure, there may be fans of both, but a fan of one doesn't necessarily mean that person is a fan of the other and vice versa. And luckily, we only need around 13,000 people that are willing to pay NHL prices every game (plus corporate box sales). I think it's well within the realm of possibility.




And where do you intend on finding these people???????

Or do they only come out to Portage and Main once the team is threatened with it's departure??? lol Where were these people when they were needed the last time?? Are they going to now magically appear after a long absence since the NHL was last here??

New MTS Centre is your argument?? That's fine and dandy and will bring out the odd casual fan, but it's the product on the ice that will sustain them for the long run (which is needed to survive) and keep them coming back for more.

Are we really going to attract these 'casual' fans out 3-4 times a week at NHL prices when they won't pay cheaper rates right now?? The argument that it's the "NHL" is a weak one.......

Not saying it's impossible, but sometimes you gotta take off the rose colored glasses to see the grim reality too.


Keeping in mind those 13,000 people need not be the same 13,000 people every game. I think its quite attainable. Remember, teams like Edmonton and Vancouver were not selling out their buildings in the early 90s either.

I don't know what you're talking about when you say the "it's not the NHL" argument is weak. Seems to me we support the AHL better than most if not all of the other teams, so that certainly bodes well for even better support for the NHL. Remember the Minnesota Moose? Winnipeg supports them a heck of a lot better than Minnesota ever did and guess what? Now the NHL team in Minnesota sells out every night.

I'm not seeing anything through rose coloured glasses, but I'm also not dismissing possibilities out of hand like Winnipeggers tend to do.
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Postby dkehler » Mon Aug 13, 2007 10:12 pm

BVD wrote:It might only be me who thinks this way, but was the old arena really all that bad?

I believe the only reason why my dad didn't take me to more games was because of the ticket prices and the fact that the team never really was a contender.

If Winnipeg were to get a team, they would once again be one of the more frugal teams pinching pennies which in effect would more then likely field mediocre teams.

I do believe Winnipeg will get an NHL franchise one of these days but IMO the city should just wait 5-10 years when the USA really forgets about hockey and when about 10 franchises fold down South....


It's not really about the old arena being "bad." Although it certainly wasn't all that great either.

It's more about the far greater revenue-generating capabilities of a modern facility that the old arena lacked. The luxury suites alone in the MTS Centre would generate millions of dollars extra every season for an NHL team.
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Postby BlueBallz » Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:16 pm

dkehler wrote:
BlueBallz wrote:
dkehler wrote:
BVD wrote:Even "if" the tickets were 160 dollars... I doubt many peggers would still go. Heck we have troubles selling 20-40 dollar tickets for Bomber games when the team isnt' winning. I can't imagine to many people spending 5 times as much with a team that wont ever contend.


Who says we wouldn't ever contend? There is more that can't do attitude I'm talking about.

Anyway, I don't think you can compare the CFL to the NHL directly. Sure, there may be fans of both, but a fan of one doesn't necessarily mean that person is a fan of the other and vice versa. And luckily, we only need around 13,000 people that are willing to pay NHL prices every game (plus corporate box sales). I think it's well within the realm of possibility.




And where do you intend on finding these people???????

Or do they only come out to Portage and Main once the team is threatened with it's departure??? lol Where were these people when they were needed the last time?? Are they going to now magically appear after a long absence since the NHL was last here??

New MTS Centre is your argument?? That's fine and dandy and will bring out the odd casual fan, but it's the product on the ice that will sustain them for the long run (which is needed to survive) and keep them coming back for more.

Are we really going to attract these 'casual' fans out 3-4 times a week at NHL prices when they won't pay cheaper rates right now?? The argument that it's the "NHL" is a weak one.......

Not saying it's impossible, but sometimes you gotta take off the rose colored glasses to see the grim reality too.


Keeping in mind those 13,000 people need not be the same 13,000 people every game. I think its quite attainable. Remember, teams like Edmonton and Vancouver were not selling out their buildings in the early 90s either.

I don't know what you're talking about when you say the "it's not the NHL" argument is weak. Seems to me we support the AHL better than most if not all of the other teams, so that certainly bodes well for even better support for the NHL. Remember the Minnesota Moose? Winnipeg supports them a heck of a lot better than Minnesota ever did and guess what? Now the NHL team in Minnesota sells out every night.

I'm not seeing anything through rose coloured glasses, but I'm also not dismissing possibilities out of hand like Winnipeggers tend to do.



So what your saying is that they'll need to draw out a new 13,000 every game then??

Like I said, WHERE do you intend to find these phantom casual fans?? If they can't be drawn out to events (like the Moose and Goldeyes) that are cheaper than NHL games, how do you expect them to fork out even more money for NHL games a few times a week?

It may work for a while, but if you do the math....number of games in a season, population of Winnipeg, percentage of population that could actually be potential casual fans.....it's quite a lofty order to expect a new 13,000 fans per game, even per week for that matter.

I honestly don't see people forking over big bucks a few nights a week just to say "Hey, atleast I got to sit in the new MTS centre!!" when they can hardly be drawn out to games that are far cheaper.

They're casual fans, so to them it's the cost that appeals to them, and I'm sure they could care less if it's the NHL, AHL, or Stars on Ice, lol.

A good portion of the fans that attend Moose games now are hockey fans and a few die hards, but you're bound to lose a few when you tell them that ticket prices are going to almost double, that's a fact.

Sure you're going to make up for some of the losses with the re-emergence of these other so called 'die hard' NHL fans that say they will come out only then, but in order to sustain the team for the long term...you're going to need to draw out these 'casual' fans to the games, and that's another harsh fact.

People wanna use the examples of the junior championships attendance, but that's a poor example, simply because the majority of those fans were there because of the relatively low cost, but I would bet that if you asked them to pay NHL prices and come out for more than JUST a couple weeks once every few years, you wouldn't get the same attendance or support.

OK, well I don't want to dismiss the idea either, and will welcome the NHL back with open arms should it ever happen, but I also like to look at it objectively before getting my hopes too high either.
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Postby bluechaser » Sun Sep 23, 2007 9:29 am

:evil: i , am so sick of you people being so negative, (we cannot support the nhl, were to cheap , we are losers, etc, etc, etc,). first off the jets were always better than the maple laughs, or is it maple loafs, cmon argue this, hell the MOOSE are better than any hockey team that comes out of torauncho!! 2. what is the capacity at gm place in vancouver??? 16500, but its not to small, if the mts centre was 16500, its to small..... lets see, new jersey ( area pop about 7 mill) , and they are lucky if there is 5000 people in the stands at devils games. yea population makes a difference. 3. lets see, all canadian teams pretty much sell out every game, so why not winnipeg???, are we american??? .detroit good ole hockey usa (pop in the millions), but could not sell out any playoff games, yep population matters!. back to good ole t.o. 20,000 at the acc , hell a funeral is more livley then a loafs game, betcha only about 14000 are actually in the stands, the ahl lasted only 1 year, a city of 5 mill and could not draw flys to a roadrunners game and they were better than the almighty leafs( even made the playoffs too!!) 4. ottawa now here is a city that supports thier sports teams, ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha, case in point: the wha civics how long?? twice in the cfl, how long the second time around: if it was not for ugene melnyck you would not even have the sens, oh ,oh also what about your triple a baseball team gonzo alonzo, yep winnipeg cannot support the nhl , WE LOST THE TEAM BECAUSE OF OUTRAGEOUS SKYROCKETING PLAYER SALARIES PLUS BACK IN 96 THE CANADIAN DOLLAR WAS WHAT 60 CENTS AND PLAYERS ARE PAID IN "US" FUNDS, i could go on and on, but whats the point . no wait a minute how many people go to watch the argos play in sky dump????? .
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Postby BVD » Sun Sep 23, 2007 10:41 am

Bluechaser -> While it is true what you say, don't forget most of those American Teams have billionaire owners and for them to lose 5-10 million a year it's just pocket change...
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Postby bluechaser » Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:37 am

BVD wrote:Bluechaser -> While it is true what you say, don't forget most of those American Teams have billionaire owners and for them to lose 5-10 million a year it's just pocket change...
lets see if i have this right, a billion dollar owner wants to own a team in the us , just to lose 5 to 10 mill a year????, yep americans are stupid, say didn't those two clowns who bought the jets lose half of thier wealth ( billionaire to millionaire), makes sense, so bring a team to winnipeg and lose 2 million a year, and after the revenue sharing is done and distibuted, each team gets more money , the nhl is based on revenue sharing no, so to me it would make sense to place a team here, after all money is distributed winnipeg would make a profit wouldn't they? and asper is a billonaire is he not???
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Postby DBrules » Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:17 pm

yes.
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Postby BVD » Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:06 am

Wow way to bring up a 3 year old thread... what's scary and funny is that it's identical to the newer Atlanta Thrashers to Winnipeg thread.

High ticket prices, only selling nose bleed section out, buying tickets $100 dollars for 40 times per year etc.. etc....

What I find interesting is that the poll is nearly 50% and this is on a sports site... if interest is only at 50% for sports fans then what would it be at with the general public?

So for fun doing the math....

MTS Center has 15 000 for hockey

Winnipeg has we'll say 700 000 people in the area

NHL Regular season has 41 home games.

15 000 * 41 = 615 000 tickets that need to be sold

Average payroll is 51 million (taken from wikipedia)

Best case scenario ticket prices at the cheapest to break even will be at - $83 per ticket. This is calculated by taking the payroll and divding it by the amount of tickets that can be sold in a season.

So if they can sell out every single game and if the owners don't want to take any profit in from the ticket prices... the average ticket will be at 83 dollars.

If you factor in that only half the sports fans care about the Jets... so we'll say only half the people in the city would be interested in going to a Jets game on average every hockey fan would have to buy 2 tickets per year.

Now if we use reality and reality probably has it that only 20-25% of the people would go to a single game and Thompson would want to generate a profit... Ticket prices would be in the $100 - $125 average range and those 20 - 25% of people who are interested in the Jets would have to buy 4 tickets per year.

As what cptkirk said in the other thread... only way Jets will work is if they somehow get tickets down to an average of $50 dollars, field a competitive team still (50 million payroll instead of watering the team down like the old days and have a lower payroll and a losing team) and manage to get people to pay $50 - 75$ in concessions EACH per game.

Looking very doubtful of this happening...
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Postby dkehler » Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:49 am

BVD wrote:Wow way to bring up a 3 year old thread... what's scary and funny is that it's identical to the newer Atlanta Thrashers to Winnipeg thread.

High ticket prices, only selling nose bleed section out, buying tickets $100 dollars for 40 times per year etc.. etc....

What I find interesting is that the poll is nearly 50% and this is on a sports site... if interest is only at 50% for sports fans then what would it be at with the general public?

So for fun doing the math....

MTS Center has 15 000 for hockey

Winnipeg has we'll say 700 000 people in the area

NHL Regular season has 41 home games.

15 000 * 41 = 615 000 tickets that need to be sold

Average payroll is 51 million (taken from wikipedia)

Best case scenario ticket prices at the cheapest to break even will be at - $83 per ticket. This is calculated by taking the payroll and divding it by the amount of tickets that can be sold in a season.

So if they can sell out every single game and if the owners don't want to take any profit in from the ticket prices... the average ticket will be at 83 dollars.

If you factor in that only half the sports fans care about the Jets... so we'll say only half the people in the city would be interested in going to a Jets game on average every hockey fan would have to buy 2 tickets per year.

Now if we use reality and reality probably has it that only 20-25% of the people would go to a single game and Thompson would want to generate a profit... Ticket prices would be in the $100 - $125 average range and those 20 - 25% of people who are interested in the Jets would have to buy 4 tickets per year.

As what cptkirk said in the other thread... only way Jets will work is if they somehow get tickets down to an average of $50 dollars, field a competitive team still (50 million payroll instead of watering the team down like the old days and have a lower payroll and a losing team) and manage to get people to pay $50 - 75$ in concessions EACH per game.

Looking very doubtful of this happening...


As has been mentioned before, trying to figure ticket price by looking at payroll is a flawed premise to start off with. That's why you can't make the numbers work. If you look at gate revenue, a $65 average ticket puts Winnipeg in the top 10 for gate revenue per game, right up there with Edmonton and Chicago. That's even after taking into account the fewer seats of the MTS Centre.
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Postby ManitobaMike » Thu Aug 12, 2010 5:46 am

An NHL team here will have to generate the equivelent of over $1 million U.S. a night in ticket sales just to pay the players salaries. Do the mathematics. To Run an NHL franchise, Mark Chipman once said publicly that the operating costs of NHL team is in the neighborhood of $80 million minimum.


The salary cap basement is now over $43 million U.S. The building will HAVE TO be sold out every night, whether or not the team is good or bad. Whats going to happen if the team here isn't competitive? Are people going to the some thing they did with the Bombers over the last few years and quit supporting it unless the team is winning? Chipman also said the bringing an NHL team back doesn't guarantee the team will be a winner. How long will it be before the honeymoon period ended?

Im not against the NHL but I personally think that the NHL is still too expensive for Winnipeg long term. I wonder what ticket prices are going to be for the Bombers when the new stadium opens.
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Postby blueandgoldguy » Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:51 pm

Do I want an NHL team in Winnipeg? Absolutely! Am I willing to pay for season tickets? Yes!

I think what many people fail to realize is that you can just split season tickets with friends instead of going to and paying for an season ticket(s) yourself. And I'm sure splitting of season tickets is quite common in places in places like Edmonton,Calgary and Vancouver. Even if someone can afford $5000+ for a season ticket, it does not mean he/she will have the time to go to 44 games (I'm including exhibition games) per year.

Myself and 5 other friends are planning on getting 2 season tickets at about $100 per game. So $8800 per game divided by 6 works out to $1466 each. To me that's very affordable considering you only have to pay 20% down and then make monthly payments over the next 6-10 months. This is how it's done in other cities.

I'm sure there thousands out there like me and my friends who are willing to split the costs of season tickets. In my mind, the Jets or whatever name this team will be called, will have 13000 season tickets (or whatever True North caps the number at) within a month of tickets going on sale).

Hopefully the deal to keep the team in Phoenix falls through and we can look forward to NHL hockey in this city come 2011. If not, no sweat. We can just wait until one of the other southern sadsacks like Nashville, Atlanta or Florida decides they have lost enough money and decide to move their team up north.
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